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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  December 13, 2014 12:00am-1:01am PST

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>> charlie: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with senator john mccain and his reaction to the senate intelligence committee report. >> i said, look, general, i sympathize with your job. i know what it is. i know there's threats to america. but i cannot countenance water boarding. i cannot countenance it. it is something that fits all of the description of torture. >> charlie: we continue with diane von furstenberg whose book is called "the woman i wanted to be." >> that's the one advice i tell every woman in the world, every person in the world that the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself because, once you have that, every other relationship is a plus and not a must. >> charlie: we conclude with al hunt on the story with
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senator tim kaine of virginia. >> i have been trying for months to get this vote. we're now 1500 combat advisors growing into iraq. three americans already killed in operation inherent resolve and congress hasn't even had a discussion or committee hearing or vote until we did it. we've done it and now i believe it is the will of both bodies, both parties. we have to authorize this war. >> charlie: john mccain, diane von furstenberg, and tim kaine when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> rose: additional funding has been provided by:
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>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services world wide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: the week has been dominated by the release of the senate report on the c.i.a. detention and interrogation program. c.i.a. director john brennan conceded some of the report's findings thursday. >> in a limited number of cases, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent and rightly should be repudiated by all, and we fell short when it came to holding some officers accountable for their mistakes. >> charlie: joining me is senator john mccain. senator mccain, thank you very much for coming in. i know you received a lot of attention after that eloquent speech about america and its
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values on the senate floor. >> i know the use of torture compromise is that which most distinguishes us from our enemies. our belief that all people, even captured enemies, possess basic human rights which are protected by international conventions the united states not only joined but for the most part authored. >> charlie: give me a sense of your first reaction to that which you said on the floor, but also how the blowback has come and how you assess that. >> well, the blowback is somewhat interesting in that mr. brennan yesterday made the incredible statement that the results of these enhanced intelligence techniques -- interrogation techniques, e.i.t.s, that the results were
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"unknowable." that's remarkable on its face because, usually, when someone is interrogated and you get certain information from it, then you know whether you've got information or not. so i will be very interested in an elaboration there, and i think one of the reasons why he made this statement that way is they basically don't have concrete results that they can point to. now they say a number of things, but on close examination, these results were not gained from e.i.t.s. the other thing i would like to point out to you, charlie, very briefly, is that david petraeus, i respect him as much as or more than anyone i've ever met in the military, was quoted in the "wall street journal" today, he said, "if you want information from a detainee, you become his best friend, and that is what worked for us with our special operators as well as our conventional forces in both iraq and in afghanistan."
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i assure you that david petraeus will tell you that they know what their results were and they were good results and we didn't violate our obligations under the geneva convention as far as treatment of prisoners is concerned. >> charlie: it's an interesting point you make because there are people in the c.i.a. including former directors who say you have to appreciate the context. while that may be over the long run the best way to go, we were under enormous pressure at that moment because america had been attacked to find out as much as we can, as much as we could as fast as we could. >> well, i understand that, charlie, and i think all americans shared that view at that point but i think we also have to understand whether or not that was the most effective way. in other words, if you spend time becoming a friend and then get valuable and useful information or do you torture somebody and, believe me, water
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waterboarding started with the spanish inquisition. we convicted and hung japanese war criminals for waterboarding americans after world war, two that that is going to receive concrete results you can use in combating this enemy that attacked america, and i think that's part of the question. but the major question is it's not about interrogation and what they got. it's not about -- or the nature of our enemy. it's about us and what kind of a country we were, what we are and what we will be. >> charlie: mike morrell said to me in a program the ce bait that needs to happen is over the morality of doing terrible things to a person versus the morality of doing nothing in the face of great danger. i assume you would say the thing you need to do is become the best friend of this person so that he is motivated to tell you.
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>> yeah, use that as well as other techniques which i think can also be used, but then that brings us, again, if mr. morrell was so fired up -- and i understand it -- and his people, why are the results unknowable, unknowable when we've done this to people that actually, apparently one of them died. some of the techniques are really, you know, almost you want to turn your head. and when you waterboard somebody 183 times, is that a way to really get useful information? and there's a lot of back and forth as to whether, you know, there are allegations whether we found out about osama bin laden and there is other evidence that says we found out that information before they employed these e.i.t.s, and some of that may have to be resolved. but what's the results of our
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image around the world, by the way, which was known around the world. this wasn't a secret. this wasn't revealing a secret we used these e.i.t.s. and, by the way, i didn't see any increased zeal, don't see any possible increase in zeal on the part of al quaida and i.s.i.s. to attack the united states whether this information was out there or not. >> charlie: what do you think about reports wiwï the u.n. that some people think there should be prosecutions of the people who carried out these interrogations? >> i think they were carrying out orders and i think there was not a prohibition at that time, certainly a specific prohibition in american law, although the geneva convention's, clearly, which is the treatment of prisoners, not battlefield, but prisoners that prohibits this. we have this information out there. the debate will go on for a
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while, but i would hope we would have laws in being, which we do, we have the detainee treatment act and other legislation that we enacted, and then now let's move on a better nation. only america in my view, maybe other countries, but i don't think so, could we come clean, give all the information to our public and then move forward, because that's really the only way we can close the chapter. so that's another reason why i think, and i have problems with some of the aspects of this report. it's better to have gotten it out, get it behind us and move on. we've still got an enemy that's hell bent on destroying us. >> charlie: what problems do you have with the report? >> well, i think maybe there should have been a greater effort to interview some individuals. >> charlie: including c.i.a. directors? >> i think so. and the rationale was that there
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was a justice department investigation or something like that. i'm not that familiar with all of the aspects of the report. i would have loved to have seen it be bipartisan. that would have avoided a lot of what we are hearing. i also would like to mention one other thing. you are hearing from them, while nobody in the senate objected to it, nobody didn't want us to do it. that's not true. i met with the vice president of the united states at length. i met with general hayden at length in the secret secure room in the capitol where i voiced my very strong objections to it at the time and then we moved forward later on with legislation to prohibit it. >> charlie: tell me what you said to general hayden at that time. >> i told him. he went through this routine that these were mild ways of getting information, what you might expect. i said, look, generally, i sympathize with your job, i know
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what it is, i know there's threats to america, but i cannot countenance waterboarding. i cannot countenance it. it is something that fits all of the description of torture. and, so -- and i said the same thing to the vice president. in fact, the vice president came to a republican lunch to argue against the legislation that we were about to pass called the detainee treatment act, and he and i had a kind of semi debate, and the vote was overwhelming, 90-something to 6, or something like that. >> charlie: when youlike at this de-- when you look at this debate and you see the conflict expressed in the dialogue, how do you characterize these former c.i.a. directors who say we fully inform the congress, we were working under legal authority, we advised everybody, and we believe we got some information. these are honorable men and
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women, are they not? >> mm-hmm. well, the latest one just said yesterday that it was unnoble. >> charlie: that's john brenner. >> yeah. david petraeus, also c.i.a. director, obviously thought that the best way to do it was what we said about if you want information you become his best friend. >> charlie: but george tenet, who was c.i.a. director, said we can show you specifically how we got information that led to the attempt -- to either the rescue -- i mean the attempt to capture or kill osama bin laden. >> you know, i keep hearing that but there is argument on the other side that the useful information they got concerning bin laden was before they inflicted the e.i.t.s on k.s.m. so there is a debate out there as to whether that technique was indeed successful or not, and if that was indeed the case, then
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why did mr. brennan yesterday say that the results were "unknowable"? charlie, you either know or you don't know. >> charlie: i hear you. there is also the point, as you pointed out, this major point in terms of the reaction around the world. how does this country, assuming it's had the impact that has been suggested, go about repairing that damage? and it is important, as some have said to the country to acknowledge its mistakes as a first step. >> i think acknowledging our mistakes is the right step. we did that after the revelations concerning the abuses that took place at abu ghraib and we were able to put it behind us. there was an investigation. people were found responsible. now the information is out there, and we can tell the world, look, we're not perfect, america's far from perfect, but i'll tell you we're the only nation in the world who can
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acknowledge our mistakes. the russians and the chinese supposedly are critical. when do you expect us to have the russians talk to us about the treatment of their detainees and the chinese of their treatment of their detainees? never. that is what makes america proud. we make mistakes, we admit those mistakes and we move on a better nation and that's what i believe that we are, and it is really in this particular situation, as i keep repeating, it really is what america is all about. >> charlie: tell us, if you will, even though you've spoken this a thousand times. what is it that torture does to a person? >> well, the infliction of pain is really something that fits the description of torture, and what it does is, if there is
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enough pain inflicted, that person who is having that pain inflicted on them, sooner or later, will say anything to make the pain stop that he thinks that the interrogator wants to hear. that's why you get a wealth of misinformation. there were numerous times in north vietnam where our captors didn't tell them the truth when it came time. we told them whatever we felt was necessary to make the pain stop, and that is certainly what you might expect. so you not only got -- finally, if you inflicted enough pain on these individuals, they said something, but, honestly, was it good or bad information? we don't know. generallgeneral petraeus is talg about developing a relationship and thereby getting information voluntarily.
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that's what police do and others. they have the good cop/bad cop routine when they interrogate people suspected of crimes. it's not an unusual kind of technique. >> charlie: on a more humorous note, your former friend now best friend joh friend jon stews taken your speech on the senate floor and set it to music and cheering crowds and he is saying john is back. >> john mccain forever! my favorite was the line where he says "don't ever leave me again." (laughter) >> charlie: thank you, senator. great to have you. >> charlie: diane von furstenberg is here. she is more than anything else my friend. i have known her more than 40 years. she is also a fashion designer, a bids woman, former princess and a grandmother. one of her most iconic designs is the rabb dress.
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it celebrates its 40t 40th anniversary this year. she has written a memoir called "the woman i wanted to be." said to be honest, direct and fascinating just like the author herself. she also stars in e! series documentary "house of dvf." and here's a trailer. >> this season on "house of dvf." >> we're working now. just tell me the truth. i have to not be delusional. ♪ it is a big deal for these girls to go inside the company. every minute is costing thousands of dollars. >> it's right here! i promise! >> no, it's not! they will learn about the p.r., events, design. >> this is scary for all of us. i had made a mistake. know i have what it takes. don't know how you would be one when you're not likable.
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>> i am deciding. they are going to have a crash course. they better put their seat belts on. >> charlie: pleased to have diane von furstenberg back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. it's always nice. thank you. >> charlie: great to see you. thank you. >> charlie: has it been a good year? >> it's been a busy year. i think i've aged 30 years in one year, but it's been a big year because i finished this memoir, and i actually never went to therapy. >> charlie: you've never had a moment in therapy all of your life? >> no. >> charlie: it means what to you? >> first of all, i started the book because i wanted to tell my mother's story. and i wanted to tell my mother's story who, at the age of 22, was a prisoner of war. she was in auschwitz. she came back and she weighed 49 pounds. she came back to belgium.
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my father came back. they got married. the doctor said you're absolutely cannot have a child for three years because you won't be able to handle it and the child won't be normal. well, you know, i was born nine months later, and i was not normal. >> charlie: i was going to say, there's some question about that. (laughter) >> right. >> charlie: but it was 18 months after she was in auschwitz. >> that's right. >> charlie: 18 mnths! that's really nothing. and after my mother passed away 14 years ago, i did a lot of research in the holocaust museum in washington, and i found this little note. she used to say to me always, when i got arrested in the truck, i wrote a little note and i threw it in the street for my parents, and i said, yeah, yeah, yeah. and i never -- you know, i didn't even believe her. i don't think she knew that that note had been kept by her sister. and after she died and her
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sister died, i found the note. and when i found this little note in my hands, and i was in her house and i found this note and she said, my dear parents, you know, i don't know where i'm going, but i want you to know that i'm leaving with a smile. and i went into that blue water and i talked to myself allot and i said, this is who i am. i am the daughter of someone who went to the camp with a smile. now, she didn't go with a smile, but she said she did and wanted people to think she went with a smile. that explains so much about me. by telling my mother's story, it explains so much who i am. she used to say every year on my birthday, as you know, i'm born on new year's eve. she used to say, god saved me so that i could give you life. and by giving you life, you brought my life back. you're my torch of freedom.
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so this little belgian girl with curly hair, she was told, you're my torch of freedom. doesn't that explain who i am? >> charlie: well, that and more. she died in 19 -- >> she was when antonio was born in 2001. >> charlie: 2001. 2000. >> charlie: so she lived to see you come to new york and be the woman that you became. >> oh, yes. and she knew two of my grandchildren. yeah, absolutely. and she took care of my children, and she was very much a part of my life. i think you knew her, too. >> charlie: she was a tiger mom, you say. >> she was a tiger mom, yeah. >> charlie: meaning? meaning if i was afraid of the dark, she would lock me into a black closet. you know, she could be arrested today for doing something like that. but i'm so thankful she was a tiger mom. >> charlie: and if she was sitting here at this table, you would say to her? >> thank you. >> charlie: thank you.
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i am here because you were here. >> well, and she would probably say thank you, too. i would say thank you to her, and she would say thank you to me because, in many ways, i was her vengeance. >> charlie: you say this book is written with my blood. >> yes. yes. i wrote it -- i opened my heart and i opened my soul and i said the truth. and it's very funny because i say so much about me. it's almost this book is like i went to the gynecologist and here it is. (laughter) and, yet, i am actually very reserved. i don't really like to talk about myself with the people close to me. but if you're going to do this kind of exercise, the whole point is to inspire others, and people will read, women of all ages of all parts of the world, and they will identify with some of them, because we are all the same. we all have fun but we're all
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insecure. so i think that's the whole point of writing a memoir is for people to identify with it and -- >> charlie: this is a woman you say is the woman i wanted to be. who is the woman you didn't want to be? >> oh, i didn't want to be a slave housewife. >> charlie: yeah. i didn't want to be somebody not in control of her life. >> charlie: so what was the famous cover story in the new york magazine that caused you to get divorced? >> oh, that's when i was married to agon and it was 1973, the cover. i already knew you. >> charlie: yeah. it was the couple who has everything, is everything enough. that was the cover. it was beautiful. we were the it couple, glamorous, handsome, but i realized reading that that i had
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no control over the couple. i could only have control over me and, therefore, i could no longer be the couple. i had to be me. so we separated. but we remained very good friends. >> charlie: i know you did. you went to him and said, this is not for me anymore? >> well, i don't remember exactly how it happened but something like that. >> charlie: and you also say a very interesting thing that the most important relationship you have is with yourself. >> yes, that's the one advice that i tell every person, every woman in the world, every person in the world, that the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself, because once you have that, every other relationship is a plus and not a must. >> charlie: a plus and not a must. you know i agree with that. >> i know you agree with that more than anyone. you met me, i was maybe 25 years old. >> charlie: yes. how was i? >> charlie: well, you know what i thought.
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>> but how was i? >> charlie: i thought you were cocky but with reason to have confidence. i thought you were much more worldly than i was. i was a country boy who came to the city and a few people thought i had potential. >> and i'm so proud of you. >> charlie: well, likewise. i go to sleep watching you, i wake up watching you and i'm very, very proud because you're better and better all the time. >> charlie: that's what life is about, isn't it? >> mm-hmm. >> charlie: let me talk about the monumental things that happened. tell me about the wrap dress. >> that was my door. my door was meeting this italian manufacturer. he asked me to intern for him. he taught me everything about the printing. he had a printing plan. then he taught me everything about jersey fabric, then he taught me everything about this. then i came to america and i thought, you know, i should make samples and try to sell them in america. and then i did, and then there was a little wrap top that came
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with a skirt, and then i turned it into a dress. i mean, i had no idea that this would become -- i mean, there's never been a dress that lived that long, that has covered so many generations. so, when i designed this dress, i wasn't even thinking of making a fangs statement. i was just make -- a fashion statement. i was just making something nice i could sell to be independent. >> charlie: that's the key word, so i could be independent. >> that was the whole point. >> charlie: and i suspect that's part of what your mother said to you. >> that's right. i did not know what i wanted to do, but i knew the woman i wanted to be. >> charlie: you didn't want to be dependent on somebody. >> no. >> charlie: not a husband, not anybody. >> no. >> charlie: so you made this dress and learned these skills. then you come here and take a look at this. this is an ad announcing the wrap dress at bloomingdale's in 1974. look at that. >> 40 years ago. >> charlie: 40 years ago.
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exactly. and here's what the ad said, "with clothes that are just your everyday, simple, basic p.o.w., exactly like dion, here from and beyond the most flattering skirt you can wear, flat and smooth across the hips, bias around your legs and a top that wraps around you --" >> you make it sound so hot. >> charlie: doesn't she look divine? you will, too! >> actually, i did this ad because we had forgotten to get the model and the model was sick and then the buyers said, why don't you do it? and i did it. >> charlie: and it gave you identity, independence, it bought your house, all the things and gave you what you wanted to begin with. >with. yes. >> charlie: then what happened? >> when you have such a huge success so quickly, i was in the hands of one manufacturer, then
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my salesman and they wanted more and more and more, so we saturated the market. >> charlie: did you learn a lesson there. >> i learned so many lessons there, then and all the time, and then i ended up going into cosmetics and sold the company and i thought i was finished with my fashion world. i went back to europe for five years, and then i came back and then i had lost my identity. and then i started again 15 years ago. >> charlie: with the wrap dress. >> yeah, again. >> charlie: what made you think you could bring it back? >> because i saw young hip girls were buying them in vintage shops. >> charlie: and you said this has a life. >> that's right. >> charlie: and since you've done that, what has your company become? >> my company is global. it's a lifestyle -- >> charlie: you have stores all over the place. >> i have stores all over the world. >> charlie: including china. including china. but still, what i also try to say in this book, even though when you are successful and when you get successful, you still
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make mistakes. and i talk about two or three years ago, i went a little bit of brand and pulled myself back to go on brand. so the first part of the book is about the woman i am and the second part is the business of fashion. i think also in the business of fashion i did the therapy by really analyzing all the things. because i am very much an entrepreneur and i'm not a c.e.o., i'm not good as c.e.o. at all but i am an entrepreneur. so i always worked with passion and impulse and making things happen. but it's not just that. you also have to, you know, run a company. anyway. so... >> charlie: where do you want to take it? >> well, now, you know, i had three parts. first part was american dream. the second part was -- the second was come back kid. now it's legacy. that's the good thing about aging is that you have a past,
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and if you have a past, in a company, if you have 40 years, that's legitimacy. you're part of american -- you know, people know you -- the grandmother, the mother. so then you have a legacy. and me, my legacy, wha what doee brand stand for. it's solution-driven, it's the friend in your closet, it's a love brand. >> charlie: there was a time in which you didn't think of yourself -- didn't like to think of yourself as a designer. >> it's not that i didn't like it. it's that i didn't dare -- i didn't know -- because i didn't go to design school at the beginning, i didn't dare call myself a designer. but i do now. >> charlie: yes, you do. i do now. i've proven it. >> charlie: yes, you have. i have.
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>> charlie: respect means a lot to you. you want people -- >> to respect? >> charlie: -- to respect. yes, respect means a lot to get from people, but i also respect others. >> charlie: of course, you do. and respect is a lot, yes. yes. it's funny you say that. it is very important. >> charlie: why funny i say that? >> because it's never been talked to me before, an it's so nice that you can be in an interview and have something that's never been told you. >> charlie: what has barry meant for you? >> barry. barry is a mountain. barry is someone just like the wrap dress. i took him for granted. i madly fell in love with him 39 years ago, we were together for five years, and then i went on. and i took him for granted. but i know that he knows, and i know, we both knew that somehow we would end up together, you know. we knew that. >> charlie: did you really?
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did the other affairs and relationships, you thought i always knew i would end up with barry? >> deep down i did. very early in our relationship, we were coming back from the country, and barry drives very fast. he slowed down to let an old couple to cross the street. and the old man was helping his wife, and they were walking. both barry and i at the same time had the same vision, one day we will be that couple. the only thing we don't agree about is that he thinks it was madison avenue and i know it was lexington avenue. (laughter) so barry is everything. barry, at the end, is the most -- definitely the most important man in my life. >> charlie: absolutely. so it was luxury. it was the luxury. but i think it has a lot to do also with i get a lot of love from my father and, therefore, i
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took love from men for granted. i was never needy. and it's not good for a woman to be needy. >> charlie: nor is it good for a woman the take a man for granted? >> no, but i think it's better than being needy. >> charlie: why did you want to do the reality tv show? >> you know, people always wanted me to do tv shows because, you know, it's good for business, you get close to the new generation. everyone came back to me with horrible, tacky ideas. and then one day alexander, my son, says to me, you know, all you need is you need hot girls going around the world, you know, wearing your clothes and doing social media. and i thought, yeah, maybe i will have brand ambassador, and we said maybe that will be the tv show. so eight girls come in the company and they learn about everything. everything is real. then one will become a brand ambassador for one year. >> charlie: so this is all
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about becoming the brand ambassador for dvf. >> yes, and they're competing. i love to be with young girls. i love the beginning of people's lives, you know, when all the doors are there, and which door is going to be my door? i love that. and even though i'm old grandmother and all of that, i still relate to that moment in life when you push your first door. >> charlie: women's issues are important to you. >> yes. in part -- listen, i wanted to empower myself. i empower myself and, having tone that -- having done that, it's my duty, my privilege, whatever, to try to empower women. so i do it through my work. i give them sexy clothes that make them feel confident. i mentor. i go to speak to university and things like that, and i do it through philanthropy.
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i'm lucky because everything i tdo is all connected to the same thing. >> charlie: what haven't you done that you wanted to do? >> i've never written a play. >> charlie: you want to write a play? >> but i know i will never be able to write a play. >> will you write another book? i don't know. >> charlie: you said to me, you've never had therapy. >> no. >> charlie: you've never been to a shrink or anything. >> no. >> charlie: not once. well, actually, i did go once, but i never went back. >> charlie: why was that? because i thought, oh, my god, how can i even begin to tell her everything? she was a woman. but i wrote my diary and i think that was therapy. yeah, i wrote my diary all my life. it was very boring. and wherever you read, you open up and you say i'm at a turning
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point in my life. so i think all i did in my life is turning. >> charlie: are you really someone who has no secrets? >> i have no skeletons. >> charlie: no skeletons. i don't think anybody can blackmail me. >> charlie: because there is nothing you've done -- >> that i wouldn't stand for. which is good. >> charlie: but there are secrets, things you haven't told us. >> oh, yes, there's plenty i haven't told. >> charlie: you haven't made a decision as to what you would tell or not. >> no, i talk about the things that are important that made me the woman i wanted to be. some things didn't make the cut. >> charlie: but the things that made you the woman you want to be is your mother. >> my mother. >> charlie: and the drive that she gave you. >> right. my work, my children. >> charlie: your work and your independence and your children. how important is your work to you? >> oh, my god... oh, my god, my work is everything because its gives me
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an identity. i could pay for my bills, my children's education. it made me famous. i mean, you know, everything. how important is your work, charlie? we're two little capricorn ghosts. that's all we do is work. (laughter) what else are we going to do? i mean, we're engaged, right? >> charlie: right, but, at the same time, we're both in love with the broader world, too. >> yes. >> charlie: all that it offers in terms of -- >> exactly, and you love to be a voice to others. >> charlie: yeah. you bring the most interesting people around this table, give them a voice. that's major. that's major. i mean, that becomes history. >> charlie: you knew me when this was a dream. you remember? >> i know. i knew you and you were adorable and you were the same and you were adorable, and angry, and how do i get that done, and
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that's why i feel very proud. >> charlie: okay. so you think, looking in the mirror, you see a proud woman. >> i see probably -- probably i see complicity with myself. >> charlie: complicity? yes, i'm very much my best friend. >> charlie: it's your best relationship, as you say. >> yes, and that's where i get my strength. >> charlie: and your mother gave you that? >> i think so. she forced me to be strong. she didn't ever allow me to be afraid. i was not allowed to be afraid. >> charlie: that's the important thing. >> afraid? afraid of what. to this day, i have little moments and i'm in the plane and i'm a little scared for a minute, i close my eyes and think about my mother. >> charlie: she came out of the worst suffering you could ever come out of. >> but she made it. >> charlie: did she talk about it to you? >> she didn't. she protected me. a lot of people, if they know i'm the daughter of a holocaust survivor and they are, too, they
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come to me and there are fascinating stories and i love the talk to them because i love the talk to them. my mother never gave me the weight because she didn't tell me. she said in the dark you have the look for the light and live around the light. she witnessed evil but refused to see it? did she give you dreams or simply say to you, you can achieve your dreams, so dream? >> yes, she just said, go! go! she was always ready, go! can i do this? go. yeah. >> charlie: when you look back at all this, have you had to overcome anything? >> i'm sure i did. >> charlie: consciously? did i have to overcome -- but you know, i mean, one of the things that i also say about the book, it doesn't matter how successful you are. you still wake up some morning
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and feel like you're a total loser. >> charlie: really? you feel about yourself that way? >> all the time. yes. >> charlie: was there anything you would like to change about yourself? >> you know what? i deal with what i have. >> charlie: you've come to that, though, haven't you? >> yeah. but you have to do that early on. you have to play with the cards that we're dealt. >> charlie: you've done well with the cards you're dealt. >> i love you, charlie. >> charlie: diane von furstenberg, "the woman i wanted to be." she's also on television, called the "house of dvf," and all of that. the remarkable thing about this friend of mine is she is taking a deep, deep glass of fullness of life so that it just constantly is exciting and makes her more interesting as a friend and what a glorious thing to have is good friends. back in a moment. stay with us.
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>> al: tim kaine has been a mayor, governor and united states senator from virginia, a member of the foreign relations and armed services committee, he was the driving force behind authorizing the war against the islamic state which was cleared by the committee this week. senator kaine, awfully good to have you. >> good to be with you. >> charlie: foreign relations committee, not a ringing endorsement for a policy, is it? >> not the vote i would have hoped. i have been trying for months for a vote. the president issued war on i.s.i.s. the 8th of august. we're now a billion dollars, 1500 combat advisors on the ground growing to 3,000, three americans already killed in operation inherent resolve, and congress hasn't even had a discussion or committee hearing or vote till we dead it, we've done it and now i do believe it is the will of both bodies, both parties, we have to authorize this war. >> al: except it won't happen
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in this congress but you thought it was essential. >> i am. i'm disappointed we didn't get to it quicker but the fact of the foreign relation committee's well thought out authorization, i think that will become the default version when we get to it and pass in january. >> al: senator bob corker republican takes over the foreign relations committee in january. if you take it up again, what modifications or changes do you expect in that resolution. >> the guts of this resolution is we're in a mission the president described to the american public on the evening of september 10 battling i.s.i.l, iraq and syria we put a sunset provision saying there would need to be a reauthorization within three years or it would expire. i don't think that will be continue versal with the new senate. the one point of controversy is what we put in, a limitation on ground troops. the president said five different times to the american public, this will not with an exercise where we'll put american ground troops into combat missions into iraq or syria, so we wrote the authorization to say that.
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it's not only a good idea because the president said it, it's a good idea because people like former secretary gates said putting big numbers of ground troops into military missions in the middle east is a big mistakes. >> al: you created exceptions, didn't you? >> yes. >> al: if it was necessary to protect u.s. personnel or operations. >> yes. >> al: on a limited basis. nd the other exception is probably important is since we're doing air strikes, ground troops to spot and tell airstrikes here's the best place to go to damage the right folks and minimize civilian casualties, we can use combat force force that. there are limited exceptions. but there are those on the other side who wanted it to be more robust possibility including ground force. >> al: does that limitation satisfy what secretary kerry asked for weeks ago. >> secretary kerry testified this proposal is very close to what we would like. he wasn't wild ant the ground troops piece. he kept saying what about if
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this happens and looked at the exceptions and said this will be covered by the exception. clearly they're worried about contingencies and would there be contingencies we didn't think of. weeping we've crafted exceptions that will be significant enough. contrary to what the president said, if it says it does require ground troops, the president could come back and explain it and we could authorize it. but we think the limitation is important to begin request. >> al: i understand the administration had almost no input into the committee's deliberatdeliberation, five monr declaring war against the islamic state, whiek the white house not give you a plan, strategy or language for what kind of authorization it would like. >> it troubles me deeply but on this particular issue i have been mixing it up with him since june when the white house started started to talk about the need for military action
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against i.s.i.l i said don't think you can do it without congress. unlike other instances, the white house did not send over a draft authorization that described the mission. usually, that's how this starts. the president would give a speech like september 10. we need to battle i.s.i.l. the president would send over a draft proposal. congress would have hearings. we would debate. we would probably edit or revise and vote. they didn't send up an authorization. that meant we had to draft one based upon our best read of the situation. >> al: do you think that reflects their ambivalence on this policy? , i don't know whether ambivalence or a concern based on previous experiences, whatever we send to congress that's going to be the one thing they won't do. they may have been reluctant to hand congress something and that would be what congress would want to oppose. regardless, whether the article 2 branch does what it's supposed to or not, the article 1 branch has responsibility. the constitution clearly states you can't start a war without
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congress. >> though we have been doing it for years. >> sadly whether presidents or congresses, democrat, republican, wig or federalist, presidents overreach and congress said if i can avoid voting it could be politically beneficial to do something unpopular. but it's unfair to those asked to serve. if we ask them to risk their lives, we should at least debate and say this mission is in the national interest. if we say that we can fairly ask the sacrifice. but if we're not willing, we shouldn't ask the sacrifice. >> al: this measure would repeal the 2002 resolution for the war against iraq but not the 2001. >> yes. >> al: is that correct? is that what you hope happens when they take it up next year? >> the one challenge is you have these authorizations, the al quaida authorization from 2001 and the iraq authorization from 2002 are still out there, and active, and they've never
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been repealed. so the question is >> we should work with the administration to find -- we put a three-year sunset on the one-year authorization so that we can work with the white house to craft more refined language. >> al: do you think republicans like senator corker,
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senator paul, their views are quite different, are with you on that particular issue? >> yes, senator corker actually has done good work with the white house in dialogue about how can you take that 2001 authorization and narrow it down. and there doesn't seem to be any opposition within the body about repealing the 2002 authorization. so what we did in this package is authorize the war against i.s.i.l, repeal the old 2002 authorization, and start that process where we could come up with a better version of the 2001 al quaida authorization to give us the ability to go after terrorist groups that threaten the united states but to do it in a more limited and careful way, not so open-ended. >> al: you are a member of both the foreign relations and armed services committee, how is the war against the islamic state going? >> not only am i a member but in october, i went with senator king whom you know. we went to qatar to the air force base where the combined air campaign is being operated. it's a little like a room like
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this with big video screens on the wall. on the floor there's u.s., canadian, dutch, belgian, german, french, saudi, qatarees working together to know if there's enough intelligence to go after i.s.i.l forces. very impressive. the scope of the coalition impressive. the work secretary kerry and the united states has done to help iraqi government go from maliki government who kicked sunnis and kurds around to a more inclusive government, that's impressive. so i would say -- >> al: we're winning? -- on the iraq said we're making real progress. the tough side is in syria because the civil war in caria, the atrocities, the fragmented nature of the opposition is making progress difficult. the way i look at this war against i.s.i.l is like when we went into world war, two we didn't just invade germany. we went to north africa, sicily, italy, france, eventually to
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germany. this war will have a phase to it. the first important phase will be working together with the iraqi military and the kurds to stabilize iraq, to stable the border between iraq and syria and between syria and other nations like turkey, jordan or lebanon. but then in syria the provision of humanitarian aid, we're the largest provider of sir yb aid in the world, training and assisting the appropriate elements of the syrian opposition, we will do that and look for a moment in the dynamic in syria where we can move toward a negotiated end to the civil war there. that the going to be the toughest piece. that will be the piece where progress will be the slowest saidly, but like other wars where phases are more straightforward and other challenges more difficult and take more time. >> you and your colleague mark warner voted against harry reid to be the senate democratic leader. do you thinketh now time particularly after the election debacle for democrats that you tap younger members to be leaders in congress? >> i don't want to put words in
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mark's mouth. i think we had slightly different reasons but, sure, that was part of my thinking. i will say i voted against the leadership. we had a big loss. i wasn't willing to confirm the existing leadership team until we had a significant strategic discussion. we're going for a majority and minority. what are we going to do in the minority to do the country's business and do it the right way? the only minority we've seen is the minority that said we won't obstruct the president. we don't want to be obstructennists. ly say this about the leadership, your point about should more young people come in, leader reid and others decided that is the case. they brought in four new democrats in their first or second terms, they've come into leadership in a way that i think will create kind of new ideas
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and thoughts as we tackle this new challenge of being a majority party but doing right way for the country. >> al: what should some of the new ideas and thoughts be? it was a disastrous november for the democrats. >> it was a very difficult thing. the map was bad, the president's numbers were low. but i reject the thoughts of some who say, well, the map was bad and the president's numbers low so we don't have anything to feel bad about. no, you have to ask yourself what did we do wrong that we could do better. while we could talk a long time about this, to be really quick, bluntly, i think we need to be on the floor more pushing more legislation, having more votes, up or down, we win them, lose them, but you do that, i think what i saw in my first two years in the senate is wasn't we got the hard work done of end marketplace unfairness, immigration reform, the ryan budget, some of the things would go to the house and there would be no response whatsoever, and that took the steam out of why do we want to push legislation.
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i had colleagues say i'll vote on a hard bill to get something passed. i'll vote on a hard bill if they'll vote it down. but i don't want to vote on it if it's just going to be buried and never see the light of day. things like immigration reform never saw the light of day. some energy went out of our affirmative push. >> al: any two or three policies you would like to see democrats push harder? >> infrastructure is where we could work with republicans well. when you see the u.s. chamber of commerce and organized labor say let's do an infrastructure package for the company, put people to work, renovate the economy, take advantage of low interest rates there's no reason we shouldn't find common ground on an infrastructure package and do it soon. areas where we disagree? sure. i expect you will see significant efforts on the republican side to knock the e.p.a. over and not allow us to tack the problem of climate and
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carbon emissions. we have to tackle it the right way, not the wrong way, but we should fight tooth and nail to stop anybody who wants to push the e.p.a. over and open floodgates to pollution without limitation. >> seven months ago you embraced the probable candidacy of hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. >> i hope probable. still praying. >> al: you endorsed obama eight years. since that time jim web, your predecessor, virginia democrat, indicated he may well seek the democratic nomination. if senator web seeks the nomination, will you stick with hillary? >> i am stinging with hillary. i thought hard before i jumped in to support secretary clinton and i thut about a series of things leading up to who would be the best qualified person to be a great person. i think she's a great person. that takes nothing away from jim web or other people. >> charlie: do you think she would run? >> i think she will. >> al: tim kaine of virginia.
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thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> charlie: for more, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
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report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. funded in part by -- thestreet.com and action alerts plus where jim cramer and fellow portfolio manager stephanie link share their investment strategies, stock picks and market insights. you can learn more at thestreet.com/nbr. crude correction oil falls more than 10% this week alone. it now sits at its lowest level in nearly 6 years. the dow dropped more than 300 points thanks to that cratering crude. the industrial average having its worst week in more than three years. >> the bright side, this week's market monitor said the plunge in oil is a gift for investors. he said he's got some packages you should unwrap. all t

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